S4E8 - Miriam Herst-Stein
This week’s More Than Work Podcast guest Miriam Herst-Stein is Deputy Editor of All Things Hair, a website by Unilever. She is also a writer and a current student at the University of Denver where she is earning her Master’s in Creative Nonfiction Writing in a remote program.
After graduating high school, Miriam took a gap year during which she attended a program in Jewish studies that also included writing. There, she solidified her interest in pursuing it as a career. Before getting her job at All Things Hair she was a nanny in New York City. In the last 5 years, she has worked her way up from intern to her current role.
She currently lives in Crown Heights, New York and enjoys balancing her professional work in beauty writing with her personal pursuits. She also reads in her downtime but mostly fiction. Her personal writing as well as her academic pursuits are focused on nonfiction so the fiction gives her a break.
Miriam’s faith, Hassidic Judaism is a very important part of her life. She discusses it in her writings and was also open to discussing how it impacts her personally and professionally during our chat.
Note from Rabiah (Host):
I have a lot of respect for the people who pursue writing as a career. It is something I held at an arm’s length for much of my life but never took a chance at professionally. I really enjoyed hearing from Miriam on how she was so determined to stay in NYC and write was really inspiring. I also appreciate her taking the time to explain her faith to me. It is so important to hear others’ perspectives and I’m grateful this podcast lets me do that because the guests are willing to share.
From Camden to Crown Heights, Rabiah and Miriam chat from their home offices.
Transcript
Rabiah (Host): [00:04:13] Welcome to More Than Work, the podcast reminding you that your self-worth is defined by more than your job title. I'm Rabiah, an IT Project Manager, comedian, nonprofit volunteer and sometimes activist. Every week, I'll chat with a guest about pursuing passions outside of work or creating meaningful opportunities inside the workplace.
As you listen, I hope you'll be inspired to do the same. Here we go.
Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening. I don't know when you're listening to this. I know I'm recording it in the morning. It's actually a beautiful morning in London. We've woken up to rain for the last three or four days, and now it's super sunny out so I'm glad because I have a morning walk ahead of me.
We're going into the office, a few of us today and I [00:05:13] decided since I'm not going to get to do any other physical activity, I'll walk the hour to there. So that's good. And I've gotten more and more reliant now on doing some physical activity every day, which has been nice, because I think I spent about 42 years not really doing that.
But this week, my guest is someone who, there are like these podcast agents that submit guests to different podcasters. And I always find it funny just because I'm surprised people are submitting guests to me because of imposter syndrome, really, and me thinking, "Why is someone that eager to talk to me?" even though I've already done 50 episodes of this show or more. But she came to me by that way., I still then have to vet the person and see if it's someone that I want to bring to listeners because I value your time as much as I value mine. So, she was great. It was really nice to meet her, Miriam [00:06:13] Herst-Stein. She's a writer. She writes for this website, all things hair, and she's the editor there as well, and really impressive. And also she's back at school doing writing in school. But she's another person and there will be a few
this season, for some reason, I don't know why, but people kind of come to me in groups. And this season, there's a lot of people who are doing work that's also their passion. And that's really fun to hear. In some this case, she's a writer and she's continued to pursue writing and she comes from an artistic family.
She mentions her sister. So I'm excited to check out our sisters EP and share that with you as well. But I think just getting out of this one, what do I want people to get out of it? And what did I get out of it? Just that it is possible to find work that does reflect what you want to do, once you know, what you want to do
and once you figure that out. And so for her writing is the answer for you. It could be spreadsheets, you know. Some [00:07:13] people like math and spreadsheets and everything. So they're happy being in that world. For me, a lot of it's been about connection, I think in my career., And I didn't identify that until later.
And now, now it's also getting to write. So I just hope that everyone is staying healthy and safe and having a good week whenever you're listening to this cause you might not be listening to this the week it comes out. And really, um, also one thing I want to say is Miriam shared with me a lot about her religion.
She's Hasidic Jewish and I had experience with that in New York that I talk about a little bit, but I think it was really cool, kind of similar with other guests, to talk about that and to get into that and understand that, especially for someone like me, who has not really defined my life through religion at all.
So I hope you enjoy that too and getting her perspective on it because I really learned a lot. Have a great week. Remember if you want to do me a favor, you can like subscribe, review, share. [00:08:13] Goodpods is a place that I'm listening to podcasts now cause it's kind of a social slash listening app. So that's, uh, that's one place, but there's all kinds of places you can do that.
So thank you very much.
Rabiah (Host): Hey everyone. So my guest today is Miriam Herst-Stein. She is a writer and she is the Deputy Editor at All Things Hair. Thanks for being here. Miriam. How are you doing today?
Miriam Herst-Stein: Thank you so much for having me. I'm doing well. I'm excited to be here. I'm excited to talk a little bit about my journey and my writing and., and all of that.
Rabiah (Host): So where am I talking to you from ?
Miriam Herst-Stein: So I am in Brooklyn, New York. I am in Crown Heights. It's about like 45 minutes outside of Manhattan. A little closer to suburbia, but still definitely that New York City life.
We're going to get some sirens in the background, so you're definitely getting the New York experience.
Rabiah (Host): Yeah, don't worry. I just moved flats. I'm in London, but I had a lot of [00:09:13] sirens in the other one and then when I lived in San Diego, I lived downtown and this one guy I worked with said, it sounded like I worked in Grand Theft Auto, so.
Miriam Herst-Stein: Oh, my gosh. Yeah, it definitely feels like that sometimes here with the car alarms, especially.
Rabiah (Host): Yeah, totally. So do you consider yourself more a writer or an editor? What, what would, what do you call yourself at this point?
Miriam Herst-Stein: Definitely more of a writer. My day job kinda most of it is, is editing these days. A lot of it is kind of just editing our existing library of articles at all things hair dot com (allthinghair.com), optimizing for best SEO, keeping the products up to date, keeping up with trends. So like I said, we have a pretty hefty library, so it's a lot of just editing to keep things, you know, 20,21 ready.
But I do, you know, appreciate the writing side of it more and that's really like more of my passion.
Rabiah (Host): Yeah. Gotcha. So there's a lot of paths you can take as a writer. I mean, you could write [00:10:13] novels and fiction or you could write non-fiction or be a journalist or any number of other things, television, et cetera, comedy like I do. How did you get on your particular writing path?
Miriam Herst-Stein: So like many others, I would say I started out with some angsty high school poetry writing that wasn't very good at all, but somehow I stuck with it. And then I actually took a gap year between high school and college and did a program actually in Pittsburgh that was kind of like a, a two-part program.
It was like a seminary for Jewish subjects and then also for the arts. And I really got into a little bit, I guess of a higher caliber writing there and discovered that it was something that I really wanted to do. So that kind of moved into the personal essay, creative nonfiction zone. And then I went to college and I was going to study creative writing but everyone's like you're never going to get a [00:11:13] job in that field.
So I went with journalism, which is, you know, so much more lucrative.
Rabiah (Host): Yeah. It's way easier to be a journalist, right?
Miriam Herst-Stein: Oh, definitely. And I was never really interested in in hard journalism. I wanted to be more in the like feature writing space. So I did a lot of internships kind of across the board. I was at New York Family magazine. I worked for an editorial makeup artist and started writing articles all about her photo shoots and products.
And I, slowly kind of moved into the beauty editorial space and realized that's where I want it to be. But then kind of simultaneously, I, I kept up with my creative non-fiction personal writing, and I'm now pursuing my Masters in Creative Non-fiction at the University of Denver in a virtual program.
it's a lot of fun. So it's, it's definitely like kind of two separate paths there, but I really have a passion for both, and it's been cool to be able to maintain low.
Rabiah (Host): That's wonderful. So let's talk a little bit about your master's degree. I'm in a program right now. It's not a master's program, but it's [00:12:13] a graduate credential and It's tricky to balance when I'm in class, the work life thing.
So how are you managing that? And what decisions did you have to go through to decide you could commit to a master's program right now?
Miriam Herst-Stein: It's definitely tricky. I think that part of, it was like I'm working from home full-time now because of COVID. And I was like, I don't know how long this is going to be this way. And I'm, I'm home so much anyway. And I want to kind of make the most of his time and feel like I'm coming out of it with some growth. Even though there is growth at work, I think it's so different in this capacity. So I really felt like this was the time to do it. I end up doing a lot of homework at night and my husband is a trooper. We're in a tiny New York apartment. So he has his soundproof headphones on one side of the room. And I have mine on the other side of the room and he's been really supportive, which is helpful.
So it's a pretty quick program. It's 18 months and I'm most of the way through, so it's been, it's been a challenge balancing it, but it's been [00:13:13] really rewarding also.
Rabiah (Host): Yeah. And with the writing, like I said, there's a lot of different kinds of writing you can do. When you look at doing the journalism side or specifically the beauty side of things versus doing writing about yourself and personal narrative and personal experience, are there any similarities there for you other than grammar or something?
Are there any similarities there for you or are they just so different for you and what you get out of them?
Miriam Herst-Stein: The process is so different, I would say. With the beauty writing my goal is to kind of take myself out of it and either talk about the product, talk about the professional that I'm interviewing and really that's where my journalism background comes into play because it's so not about me.
And then when it comes to the personal writing that comes from such a, a personal perspective. And it's all about me and, and focusing on my story and my path. So it kind of feels like polar opposites in that way.
Rabiah (Host): So I'm just to say what I go [00:14:13] through with some, some of my writing and see how, if you go through this too, but with like comedy, sometimes I'll say something on stage that ends up being too personal. So I don't talk about it again, or I've written stuff where I'll never actually share it online.
Do you face that kind of challenge of deciding, oh, this is something that I'm writing for me versus something I'm writing. to publish?
Miriam Herst-Stein: Definitely. And I think, you know, now that writing is such a central part of my career, it's so hard to separate and make time for the stuff that's not going to get published and to want to invest in that. But I think it's important because not everything is going to be publishable. Especially when it comes to family members or friends, you want to be careful what you're putting out there.
It's something I do really struggle with and something we talk a lot about in my program where it's like, do you have to run something by someone before you publish it? Can you take free reign as a writer? And it seems like kind of mixed reviews across the board. So I don't know. It's a struggle.
It's definitely a struggle.
Rabiah (Host): Yeah. Cause there's the whole idea of course, anyone can say whatever they want, but then [00:15:13] there are consequences and that consequence could be your mom or parents or siblings being really upset depending on what you have or your spouse in your case. Or it could be something else. Right. So
Miriam Herst-Stein: Definitely like, I'll be quick to write about an ex-boyfriend, but not so quick to write about, you know, my husband, so, that's definitely challenging.
Rabiah (Host): yeah, you might hear through those noise canceling headphones, if you do that, just like
Miriam Herst-Stein: Exactly.
Rabiah (Host): cool. So looking at you being a deputy editor, can you talk a little bit about what that role is and also just how you got into that position because I think you're probably relatively young to be in a deputy editor position, I would say at a major website?
Miriam Herst-Stein: Definitely. So like I said, a lot of my day-to-day work is focused on editing. I don't do as much feature writing as I would like to, but I do do a fair amount of interviewing it's it's pro [00:16:13] hairstylists are experts in the field. And I actually started this job about six months out of college as a part-time intern.
I was desperate to stay in New York, so I took a secretarial job just to pay rent, but every writing job I applied to was turning me down. And I finally just took a leap of faith. I hated the secretary job, so I quit and I started, I think I nannied for every newborn baby on the Upper West Side, just like back to back two weeks here, one week there.
And just was sending my resume everywhere in the meantime. And I started a few days a week part-time and slowly just worked my way up. So I've been with the company now for about five and a half years. And you know, it's something I keep, I think about a lot, because I think especially in media people jump around a lot.
So it's not often that you hear that someone's been in one place for so long, but I've had such a positive experience and really grown in the position. And I take a lot of pride in my work and a lot of pride [00:17:13] in the brand. And I was there from the beginning. So it's cool to be able to look at the, All Things Hair US mini empire, and really feel like I've had a hand in it.
Rabiah (Host): Yeah. And how did that website come to be? I mean, it's, it says it's owned by Unilever, I guess, but it's just a branch that they have content for them, I guess.
but.
Miriam Herst-Stein: Yeah, so we deal with all of the hair care brands. So it's a, quite a range there. Tresemme, Dove, Suave, Bedhead, Axe, a handful of others, and they basically just wanted it to be a hub for everything hair related, all things hair. So it's a lot of, yeah tutorials, product recommendations and, and then we also have access to all of the pro hairstylists that they work with so a lot of professional level hair tips and stuff well.
Rabiah (Host): Yeah. Well, I read your article on man buns. Not that I'm a man, but I actually, it was very helpful to me as well.
Just on how to, I don't [00:18:13] know. I I've never really done my hair. I mean, I've just kind of like put product in and go or blow dry, straight and go, but I've never masteredthese bun styles. So it was really handy.
So what kind of articles are most fun for you to be involved in? Because that one looked fun to me. For example, I don't know.
Miriam Herst-Stein: Well, thank you so much for reading. A lot of it is, you know, SEO related. So, you know, there are those dudes out there that are like, how does you know how to do a man bun and then we got to answer. So I find those, like, those are not my favorite. I really enjoy the interviews. Something, I think about a lot and something a lot of people in my life had said to me is, you know, don't you find the beauty industry to be kind of shallow? Maybe, especially in contrast to my more serious personal writing.
And I think that there's actually a lot of depth there in being able to tell people's stories. I think that beauty can often be a really universal language among different cultures and religions and at the end of the day, like we're all looking for a great dry shampoo, you know? So I think that [00:19:13] to be able to, to interview people and share their stories and kind of, be a , a platform for that has been one of the most rewarding aspects.
Rabiah (Host): Yeah. And as someone who, on this particular podcast, I interview people all the time, I think it is really cool when you get an answer you don't expect. And that's one reason I do this mostly off the cuff just because. It allows the freedom of movement in a conversation, but it's also fun to get people's stories. I can understand that for sure.
As far as the beauty industry and you kind of alluded to it on different levels, and as someone who's not, I would say traditionally attractive in the way that I don't have the not super thin and don't whatever, just that's basically it. I think that's what people equate with attractive at this point, which is really, I don't know.
I just don't like that. But there's like body types, race, gender. You mentioned religion also from the perspective of being a content [00:20:13] creator. Do you try to address this at all? Or is that even in your capabilities right now with what you're doing?
Miriam Herst-Stein: So something like, I think that can be really challenging because I agree with you, I think that thin body ideals are just so dangerous and destructive and you know, I can tell you that I'm backstage at fashion week and I'm like the only size 10 for, for miles it feels like. It definitely like, it can feel challenging a lot of the time.
I do think that the industry is moving towards a more inclusive place. I think it can feel performative at times, but progress is progress. And I think that's going to be part of the process. I do try to. Include a range of, of different kinds of people whenever possible. I have a series called "Hair Unstereotyped" that I've had throughout the years on All Things Hair, and it's kind of just trying to break down the hair norms that we see and highlight different kinds of people, different [00:21:13] cultures, religions, like I said, and their relationship to their hair. Hair can be a really powerful tool for expression and is considered to be really holy in some cultures.
And I do, I try to highlight them as much as possible in my work.
Rabiah (Host): Yeah, that's good. I mean, I'm sure it's hard because ultimately you're just answering to, everyone is, everyone's answering to certain things. You cover what you can, but it's good that you have that column that's more of a voice or that vertical, I guess. That's awesome. Speaking about religion, and I've discussed religion on this podcast before, because I interviewed Nicole Pearson in case anyone wants to refer back to that one, and she's someone I've known for years, but she moved into faith based organizations like Christian organizations.
And it was really interesting to talk to her about that just because being myself being agnostic and also myself having certain views on organized religion it was really nice to talk to her a little bit about that. So I want to talk to you [00:22:13] a little bit about being an Orthodox Hasidic Jewish. And you already mentioned you went to, in your gap year, that Jewish school program. But I guess, can you talk a little bit about, I think first of all, I'd say educate a little bit about what that means.
If I say Orthodox Hasidic, because I think people have different ideas of that. And maybe let's start from there and then go.
Miriam Herst-Stein: Yeah, definitely. I do think that um, the media representation kind of usually shows one kind of Jew and that's either like super secular or ultra Hasidic and there's so much gray in between. My parents didn't grow up religious and both of them in their late twenties came to religion through the Hasidic sect that I'm a part of called Lubavitch. And my sect in particular is all about; it's about outreach, but it's also about kind of coexisting with the world. I think the impression is that a lot of religious Jews will kind of isolate and some communities do. [00:23:13] And I, I see the beauty in that. But the sector I'm a part of is more about living in the world and keeping up with technology and having a career and whatever it is for you.
And I think that's like a big reason why I chose to stay religious Asher growing up that way. I think for a lot of people can feel at odds with career goals, with education goals. And, and like I said, in some communities, it is that way. But for me, I, you know, I keep Shabbat, I keep kosher. I'm married, so I actually wear a wig and cover my hair.
And these are all traditions that I think are deeply important and ones that I want to maintain and pass on to my future children. But it doesn't feel at odds with, being able to exist in a world, more modern world. I would say.
Rabiah (Host): Cool. Yeah. Thanks for explaining that because I have, I mean, I lived in New York for five years. I had a very specific experience in a building I lived in where I didn't, I [00:24:13] will say I did not pretend to be Jewish, however, my letting agent said, do not say you're not Jewish, which was just weird because it's not normally what I say in a conversation anyway, except for right now.
But typically in most conversations that doesn't come up and I had mezuzah on my door and I left it, which I don't, it didn't bother me to have it there anyway. I mean, it was fine, but it was just this weird thing,. She's like, if you want this apartment, just don't say anything. And I was like, this is so weird.
Miriam Herst-Stein: That's so bizarre. I think it's like a shame because I'm sure that came from somewhere, some experience they had that led them to believe that that would be helpful. I do think that like the Torah believes that everyone is valuable and like, it doesn't, you don't need to be one type of way, you know, like that's not, that's not the foundation there, so, but yeah, I don't know.
That's, that's rough.
Rabiah (Host): it was super weird, but anyway, and I thought the landlord was funny. Well, just the New York experience I'll share. And I think I find it funny. So maybe people will find it funny or you will, but I, it was [00:25:13] cold, you know, and it was like, say 54 or something like that, right, or 55. And I said, Hey, it's really cold.
Can I turn on the heat? He goes, it'll come off on if it stays cold for two more days. And I was like, okay. And there's that whole rule in New York to be cold for three days like below, I think it was below 54 or something, right, for the heat to have to kick on and they won't turn it on.
Miriam Herst-Stein: I think there's a rule that you have to suffer. That's what living in New York is like, suffer it to some degree at all times. Oh, man.
Rabiah (Host): Yeah. And then a couple of weeks later it was so hot in the flat it was, or the apartment, it was so hot. I was like, it's freezing outside. I'm wearing shorts and a tank top. And so I write to the guy, "Hey, it's really hot. Can I turn the heat? Is there any way to control the heat?" And he goes, "open a window", is all he wrote back..
Miriam Herst-Stein: Middle of winter windows, open heat blasting. I'm sure. It's yeah, I
Rabiah (Host): you
Miriam Herst-Stein: So New York.
Rabiah (Host): Yeah, it was so great. So going back to [00:26:13] religion, so you mentioned that you wear wigs. So can you explain what that tradition is?
Miriam Herst-Stein: Yeah. Sure. So we believe that there are, you know, different aspects of modesty for, for men and women in our culture. And before marriage, it's about wearing sleeves that cover your arms and dresses that cover your knees and the high enough neckline. We believe that under the chuppah, when a Jewish man or woman get married, there is the presence of God there. And we believe that this is a very Hasidic kabalistic explanation, but this is the one I align with the most. You'll notice in a Hasidic wedding, the bride wears a veil during the chuppah that's completely opaque, so you can't see her face. And part of the reason is that we believe that God's presence is on her face during the time of the ceremony and it would just be like too blinding and too bright and too much for people to see. And the belief is that after the chuppah you take the veil [00:27:13] off, but that God's presence stays on her hair and that there's a holiness attached to it that stays. And a big part of modesty and privacy, I think within Judaism, is a belief that if something is sacred and something as holy, we keep it, I don't want to say covered cause I think they're going to have a negative connotation, but we keep it. We keep it private.
So there are a lot of explanations that say that, you know, once a woman is married, her hair is for her husband, she only you know, uncovers it in front of him. I don't like that explanation because it feels very archaic. And to me, it's about my relationship with God, more than about my relationship with my husband. But I do believe hair is holy and that it kind of goes through this transition after a woman is married and so I keep it covered outside the house. At home i uncover.
Rabiah (Host): That's interesting though, because then your like job is to write a lot about hair and so, and I'll, and I guess I'm trying to ask you a question that doesn't sound too ignorant and I'm going to probably leave this part in there so people know that I'm trying to ask the question, [00:28:13] but I don't know. is that at odds at all with what you're doing or have you had any buddy say anything to you? I think that if you're not doing the traditional thing, as far as what society thinks, oftentimes people will say something to you cause everyone has to give you their opinion. So have you faced anything just with your religion at all, either in work or outside of work that you want to talk about?
Miriam Herst-Stein: I've been really lucky. And I think that for the most part everyone has been really supportive and accepting and curious. I think that I have a fear that I'm going to come off like a super religious oppressed woman. And I need to overcompensate and be like, no, I'm cool. Like I watch Netflix, you know? And to me, I want to just be normal. Religion is a big part of my life, but it doesn't feel at odds with the rest of my life, my career, my friends, my hobbies and, you know, I think it's like the most powerful it's kind of just be and connect with people and show that there's like a [00:29:13] non-scary non-threatening side to being a Hassidic Jew, you know, that's not going to be like, oh, keep the muzuzah on your door in case someone thinks you're not Jewish. Like, eh, it's you know. So I think overall it's been pretty positive. I got married at the beginning of, or rather like, I don't even know how to calculate it now, but in September of last year, so Corona was still pretty crazy.
So I have yet to be back to the office with a wig on and there hasn't been so much opportunity to navigate it.
I am going to an event with Unilever where they do hairstyling. And I kind of just said to the PR team, you know, this is my situation. If a stylist is up for styling, they're big on my head that's cool. If if it's not doable, that's cool too, I can set this one out and they were super accommodating.
And I'm going to go and, and they'll style it on me. So I think it can feel scary sometimes to like, be overly talkative about my practices and my customs. My grandfather actually was a Holocaust survivor. So my mom definitely raised us with this idea of like, be proud, [00:30:13] but not too proud, but don't draw like unnecessary attention to yourself.
And something I always think about, I know it's a kind of an extreme example is when my mom is growing up, she was growing up in Boston and somebody came and graffitied their garage and put a swastika on it. my grandmother refused to call the police because in his experience, growing up in Germany, that was not going to be a helpful thing to do.
So they repainted and moved on. And so I think it's this idea of just like, it feels scary sometimes to be overly expressive about my religion, but it also feels important to just kind of normalize different paths and different kinds of people.
Rabiah (Host): Yeah. It makes a lot of sense because if people come to their ideas in different ways, and they come to their understanding of things in different ways. And so, for example, like you said, in the media, things are portrayed. Like I watched Unorthodox or something like that, right on Netflix. And that was a person's experience and a group of people's experience, but not everyone's experience. [00:31:13] But I mean, I'm just going to pick Jewish things.
I watch, I guess, like curb your enthusiasm is also a very different view, right. And so, and then there's like a lot in between. And so but I think that I might have gotten my ideas and it's not, I didn't, but just from those two things, which would be ridiculous. But if people do, and then they feel like they have all this knowledge, then if you're able to say, oh, and there's also, this, this is different.
This is my experience. right?
I think that's important. I mean, it's the same with Christianity. If you just look at two religions solely or same culturally with people, you know, people make assumptions about different cultures, but unless you're talking to the people you don't know about them.
Miriam Herst-Stein: Totally. Yeah. And I think people are like, making an effort to be more inclusive in 2021 than they were before. I think that there's still so much anti-Semitism. And you know, being married as is such a different thing because I'm not visibly Jewish really, [00:32:13] you know? But my husband's walking around with a yarmulke on his head and I'm like, oh my God,
there's like a lot of antisemitism out there. What if something happens? He's a chef in a kosher restaurant in Manhattan, and it's hard not to feel like there's potential with such a rise in anti-Semitism for something bad to happen. But I think at the end of the day, kind of just got to own it and like, believe the best in people.
And I think by and large, like, thank God, this is not Nazi Germany.
Everyone's like pretty inclusive, you know? So yeah, and I, and I do think, like I said, like people just overall want to be inclusive and want to understand, and that's that's been great.
Rabiah (Host): Yeah. Yeah, no, that's great. And then I'll just ask this, I mean, for me, it'd be fun, but can you like, is it a certain kind of wig you have to wear it? Can you have fun with it? And like,
Miriam Herst-Stein: You can totally have fun with it. For me, I think that my hair before I got married was like such a big part of my career and identity. And I have a ton of. And I would swear it like super voluminous, so I wanted something as close as [00:33:13] possible. And wigs these days are amazing. Like, I think it could look pretty natural, but I have friends who go pink or get highlights or whatever it is.
So you can definitely have that with it. Yeah.
Rabiah (Host): And then last question, just cause I'm curious, can you cut your hair? Like is, are you allowed to get a haircut or ?
Miriam Herst-Stein: Under my hair
underneath.
Rabiah (Host): yeah, yeah.
Miriam Herst-Stein: Yeah. Yeah. So that's, that means there are some sects that women do shave their heads. That's not super common. So my hair is just, it's a little shorter, cause it's easier to fit underneath, but as look at it highlighted and I still like to do it once in awhile. And keep up with it.
Rabiah (Host): Cool. Yeah.
Well, thanks for sharing about that. That, I mean, I don't know. I just think it's interesting and I appreciate you being open and with me and my listeners also, cause they're all going to hear it, but about it. That's really interesting. Okay. So as far as going back to your writing do you have a favorite genre?
I mean, I have a feeling, I know what it is just cause you're in a school for it, but you could surprise me.
Miriam Herst-Stein: Creative nonfiction for sure. [00:34:13] Is my favorite. Yeah. I think that, you know, like I was thinking about my feature writing and interviews and, and all that, I think its um, a great form of connection and storytelling and kind of going back to the religious conversation also, a cool opportunity to kind of express that, that side of myself and kind of show uh, a side of religion that's not one extreme or the other and that gray in between. Yeah. So that's a big theme in my writing is faith and, and struggles with that. And, and all that.
Rabiah (Host): So it's kind of cool to me that one of your hobbies is also your work, but they're so different because you're doing the editing and on specific things, and you mentioned SEO, which is super important, I know to your, your job, but then you have your personal writing and your essays you just talked about and incorporating religion and your life into it.
Can you talk about how those kind of have an interplay with each other as far [00:35:13] as your work-life balance, but also do you get writer's block? Because when I do writing for work, which I do it as part of my job and in personal, I get blocked and sometimes I have to like say, well, I'll write something personal, real quick to get out of the work predators block or vice versa.
So do you face writer's block, but also how do these things like kind of, work together if your two styles.
Miriam Herst-Stein: So I think what I've learned through both styles of writing is that I think writer's block is a myth. I think. I think that writing, maybe it's an unpopular opinion, but I, I do think that it's all about discipline in both categories. And so for me, it's like if I have three things on my list, you know, these articles that editing and this personal writing, I'm going to get the articles and editing done first cause that's my paycheck and there's a boss and I, I have to find a way to focus. But for my personal writing, I can come up with every excuse of I'm going to do the dishes first or change the laundry, [00:36:13] or literally anything else because it's hard, you know, writing is hard.
So I think that across the board, it's about discipline. I find time-blocking to be really useful where, you know, I'll focus on this for a few hours, take a break, focus on that for a few hours, take a break. And you mentioned the work-life balance and I don't know if I have any good answers about that.
I think I'm trying to challenge what I have learned about rest. I think everybody is. This is kind of a conversation going on I see online a lot where, you know, kind of challenging what we've been taught that rest is bad. That productivity is key, that your value is dependent upon what you get done.
And I actually noticed that when I got married, you know, every day at the end of the day, my husband's like, oh, how was your day? And I'd be like, oh, I got this done. I got that done. I got that done. And I wasn't giving him an answer about how the day was. I was like reading a list of, of things I could check off.
And, and it kinda made me realize, I need to see the value [00:37:13] or the worth outside of the productivity. And I can be proud of the work I do when I can get it done, but I need to be able to say something else besides like, this is how productive I was.
Rabiah (Host): Yeah.
Miriam Herst-Stein: Yeah. So, so that's the balance, I guess, that I'm striving for is to be able to rest so that I can come back to the table energized and ready to be disciplined and create.
Rabiah (Host): Yeah, that's interesting you just said that about the list, because I had someone just today, he's like, how was it? And I immediately got into that mode of, oh, I did. Oh, I worked all day and I got X, Y, and Z done. I don't work with him. He doesn't, he's not asking me as a coworker or my boss. And then I said, oh, and I'm going to do X, Y, and Z tonight.
Okay. Yeah.
That didn't tell him anything, right?
Miriam Herst-Stein: And it didn't right. Didn't share happy moments, calm moments, ,hard moments. There's no strong storytelling in that.
Rabiah (Host): [00:38:13] Yeah, anyone was going to read our to do lists as like, how was your day, my to-do list for tomorrow, you know,
Miriam Herst-Stein: exactly.
Rabiah (Host): have you, with the time boxing, I just learned about the Pomodoro method, which I don't know if I learned about it. I just basically downloaded an app that has some version of it. Have you tried that before?
Miriam Herst-Stein: Yeah, I use the forest app. Have you heard of that one? There's like a little tree on the screen. So you can, it's like a timer. So you can do like 5, 10, 15, 20 twenty-five minutes.
And it plants a tree. And if you exit out of the app, your tree dies, which is like depressing.
But it
was really helpful for me. I know, I know. But it was, it's been really helpful because I'm very easily distracted, especially working from home where like I can clean the house for hours and have a very clean house and I've gotten nothing, you know, work-related done. So, so that's been really helpful.
Both for the, like, it is like the work times and the rest of times.
Rabiah (Host): Yeah.
Miriam Herst-Stein: Make sure both are happening.
Rabiah (Host): Oh, cool. Yeah, I got focused keeper, which similar, like it makes you work for 25 minutes and take five minutes off. [00:39:13] And then you realize how much five minutes is. It's Nothing. And,
Miriam Herst-Stein: Nothing. I know. And then it turns into like 30 when I'm scrolling on Instagram. So that's a problem, but
Rabiah (Host): yeah.
It's really wild. Oh, that's cool. And I like the writer's block is a myth. I mean, I will definitely like Friday, for example, I couldn't get something done around four. And so I worked from nine to 10 just because I was like, well, I'm not going to do anything four to five, but I want to make up the time and I don't have to, but probably I could have just been, you know, oh, well it's Friday.
I made it up today, but I got in a mode where I was like, oh, now I can do it. Now I'm inspired,
Miriam Herst-Stein: Yeah, and I think it's cool. Like, I, I do think that there's something really powerful about getting inspired and creating and we romanticize it. I don't even know if it needs romanticizing. It's great. But I think that it doesn't happen as often as it would need to, to actually produce the work we want to produce.
Rabiah (Host): No for sure. Like today I just had to work. I was like, well, I have this due to my boss. I'm going to do it right now for the next hour. And it's going to be a struggle and I'm just going to do it [00:40:13] and they can't look at anything.
So Miriam, we talked about your favorite style of writing, but what about, what do you like to read and what do you enjoy consuming?
What styles?
Miriam Herst-Stein: So I'm a big fiction reader. I really enjoy memoir, but I look at reading as with my TV, I guess, to escape. I used to have a hard time sleeping also. So I've been really consistent about reading before bed and not looking at any screens. I got a Kindle this year, so I'm just speeding through anything the library will give me and yeah, lots and lots of fiction.
Rabiah (Host): I mean, I think, I think so. So I do stand up comedy, but I don't watch a lot of comedy. Because I'm doing it, right, so I like, if I watch something. It's more. I like like teenager dramas. I think they're fun, you know, which is the opposite of my life. My life has nothing to do with teenager dramas.
Miriam Herst-Stein: Yeah, totally. Yeah. I get that. Yeah, it's true. And I do a lot of like memoir reading in school. So I think that's [00:41:13] probably why also that feels more academic at this point. And, and fiction is just a nice escape.
Rabiah (Host): yeah, that's the thing, the escapism, and it can be any kind of stuff. Cool.
Miriam Herst-Stein: Yeah.
Rabiah (Host): So one thing I like to ask every guest is just, do you have, any advice or mantra that you like to share? Some people have a go-to that they just like other people that know.
Miriam Herst-Stein: I think my go-to and it's something I really struggle with, but I've made progress on is the phrase it's very common in, within my sect of Judaism which is, "Think good and it will be good.". And it's all about, you know, I think there can be, you know, definitely be such thing as a toxic positivity. And I don't, I don't want to get into that, but I think that there is something to be said for kind of just being ready to visualize what you want and believe that you can make it happen.
And I think it's kind of combined with faith where it's like, I do my part and then I let go and let God handle the rest. And I'm confident that [00:42:13] you know, I've accomplished everything I have accomplished, and that means that I can accomplish more as well. And I think it's, it's also just kind of plays into believing in our own power that believing that thoughts have power, for sure speech and action and power, and kind of just trying to be intentional with all of it. I'm really big on vision boards actually. I really like make sure to write down, you know, what each photo represents and kind of circle back and see how it how it ends up. Because I think, you know, being able to visualize what you're working towards is, is really helpful in making it happen.
Rabiah (Host): Yeah. I did actually, vision board, I always thought I was one of those people. Oh, that's lame, whatever, and I did one in this group and it was actually, it was a really powerful exercise because it made me think about what I want and I, I appreciated that and, you know, so I, I get it.
I think it's a really cool practice.
Miriam Herst-Stein: I think having it somewhere where you're looking at it daily, [00:43:13] it really just like, even subconsciously puts you in that space of like, oh yeah, like, this is what I'm working towards, what I want to accomplish and kind of helps you navigate towards that with your thoughts, with what you're working on and, and all that.
Rabiah (Host): Yeah. Oh, cool.
Rabiah (Host): So I have a set of questions called the Fun Five, and that I ask every guest. So I don't know if this will apply to you because of, I don't know. I've found that a lot of people don't wear t-shirts and this question's about t-shirts, but what's the oldest t-shirt you haven't and still wear?
Miriam Herst-Stein: So I think my mom was the original Marie Kondo and taught us to just throw things out. If it didn't spark joy. That has quickly become a lifestyle. And I I'm still that way. So I don't even know if I have an old t-shirt. Yeah, I don't, I think I'm just a you know, a Target pajamas kind of girl.
I don't know if everyone knows that department there, but it is fantastic. They're great quality. They wash well. I've had sets that I've had for years. And so funny, something interesting [00:44:13] about, about dressing modestly is that every time I go shopping, I'm looking for long sleeves, long dress, high neck line, no pants, but pajamas is the only section I can go into and be like, I can get whatever I want.
So I always think that's why I'm like little pajama obsessed.
with.
Rabiah (Host): Nice. No, that's good. That's good. That's comfortable.
If everyday was really Groundhog's Day, like the movie where Bill Murray was experiencing the same day over and over and over.
What song would you have your alarm clock play?
Miriam Herst-Stein: I would say, Chasing Cars by Snow Patrol. You know, I love that song and I can hear it again and again, but I also tend to hate whatever song I put as my alarm clock. So eventually, you know, after a few days I'm like not this again. So I'm a hard, hard answer, but it is one of my favorite songs.
Rabiah (Host): Yeah, it's a great song. It's it's really great. All right. And Coffee or tea or neither.
Miriam Herst-Stein: Coffee all the way. Usually at least twice a day. So just when I want to feel extra jittery, but definitely [00:45:13] coffee.
Rabiah (Host): And do you take your coffee any certain way?
Miriam Herst-Stein: Super sweet with a lot of milk. My husband says, do you want some coffee with your milk instead of milk with your coffee? Because that's where we're at. So that's good. That's good.
It does the job.
Rabiah (Host): Are you a Dunkin Donuts person? Do you like their coffee?
Miriam Herst-Stein: I'm not, no. I'm now I'm a Nespresso person being that my home is my office and my coffee station and everything. Yeah. That's my go-to. It's
Rabiah (Host): Nespresso is good. I always liked the purple one. For some reason, the Ristretto or something.
Miriam Herst-Stein: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good one.
Rabiah (Host): I think I liked just the color of the pod, but
Miriam Herst-Stein: I know. I know I do a double espresso now. So when I go for two, it's really just a case of not being able to sit still.
Maybe I should rethink that with my working methods, but it helps me focus helps me get good writing and that's for sure.
Rabiah (Host): that's the important thing. Can you think of something that just makes you laugh so hard? You cry or that just cracks you up? Either it's something that happened or something you just think of?[00:46:13]
Miriam Herst-Stein: So one of my best friends actually just moved into an apartment down the block. And, I've known her since I was like five or six years old. And I couldn't tell you what we're laughing about, but usually when we hang out, we kind of get to that point of that slap happy, just laughing till we're crying. So that's definitely been a mood booster in terms of a neighborhood, you know, lives, but yeah, nothing specific, I guess I would say people more than more than specifically memories.
Rabiah (Host): That's great. It's good to have a friend like that.
And last one who inspires you right now?
Miriam Herst-Stein: So, my family is pretty creative, but my sister, her name's Alana Herst is a musician and she just released, or she's about to release an EP on Spotify. And she's super talented and, and works really hard. In terms of, you know, she really enjoys playing guitar and singing, but in terms of discipline and she spends hours and hours on her craft.
And I think that that is really inspiring and it, it always inspires me to kind of keep pushing myself further in and sit for those [00:47:13] extra 25 minutes on the timer when I'm writing. Yeah.
Rabiah (Host): That's cool. That's great. And I'll link to her album if it's out, when this goes up, but Well, Miriam, thanks. It's been really nice talking to you and getting to know you. So thanks for sharing so much on the podcast.
Miriam Herst-Stein: Yeah, thank you so much for having me. This has been a great conversation.
Rabiah (Host): Thanks again for listening this week. You can find out more about the guests in the show notes, and at rabiah said dot com (rabiahsaid.com). Joe Maffia created the music just for this podcast. Find him on Spotify. That's Joe M A F F I A. And Rob Metke is responsible for our visual design. You can find him online by searching for Rob M E T K E. Thanks, Rob.
Let me know who you'd like to hear from or about your own experiences to finding yourself outside of work. Follow at more than work pod (@morethanworkpod), or send a message on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, or LinkedIn. Or visit our website more thank work pod dot com (morethanworkpod.com). [00:48:13] Give us a follow on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts and leave a review if you like. Thanks for listening to More Than Work. While being kind to others. Don't forget to be kind to yourself.
